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	<title>Comments on: The Left, The Right, and Advertising</title>
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	<link>http://badconscience.com/2009/11/20/the-left-the-right-and-advertising/</link>
	<description>&#34;But as things are, the war of the sword and the war of the pens is perpetual&#34; - Thomas Hobbes, De Cive</description>
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		<title>By: Status Hunger &#171; Bad Conscience</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/2009/11/20/the-left-the-right-and-advertising/#comment-4153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Status Hunger &#171; Bad Conscience]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?p=1360#comment-4153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] perhaps indicates &#8211; as I&#8217;ve argued previously &#8211; that left/right divisions are about more than just equality, in any straightforward [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] perhaps indicates &#8211; as I&#8217;ve argued previously &#8211; that left/right divisions are about more than just equality, in any straightforward [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ricky Howden</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/2009/11/20/the-left-the-right-and-advertising/#comment-1761</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ricky Howden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?p=1360#comment-1761</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The T-mobile Ad really gets my goat as well. Well done sir]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The T-mobile Ad really gets my goat as well. Well done sir</p>
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		<title>By: ad</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/2009/11/20/the-left-the-right-and-advertising/#comment-1563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?p=1360#comment-1563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;it inculcates pointless desires in people, encouraging them to buy crap they don’t need &lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps someone should screen infomercials encouraging people to be content with their lot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>it inculcates pointless desires in people, encouraging them to buy crap they don’t need </i></p>
<p>Perhaps someone should screen infomercials encouraging people to be content with their lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom James</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/2009/11/20/the-left-the-right-and-advertising/#comment-1561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?p=1360#comment-1561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But, as they say, whaddayagonnadoabahtit?

At some point you have to accept that people do things because they choose to do so. Arguing that they have been duped or brainwashed by teh evil corporationss (or teh evil religiousess, for that matter) is unhelpful. Muslim women wear the veil because they want to. I buy Red Bull brand energy drink[1] because I want to[2]. 

In reference to your wider point, what the left needs to realise is that exhortations towards the &quot;improval of the masses&quot; (by, for example, banning adverts/making advertising standards far stricter/attempting to foster a culture of satiety) is a much less effective vote-winner than suggesting that we simply redistribute a lot of money to poor people from rich people[3].

The actual problem with consumerist advertising culture is that it might[4] create a tendency towards overconsumption, where people buy far more than they actually need and so consume more resources and so cause more environmental damage.

But I don&#039;t believe even this is entirely clear-cut. When (God willing) more substantive progress is made towards reducing CO2 emissions and generally creating a more eco-friendly industrial base a large part of it will be involved with persuading people in first-world countries to make certain alterations to their lifestyle. Doing this will require effective legislation, but it will also require effective marketing, which requires (amongst other things) a decent ad-campaign.

In summary: if there is a problem with the left it is its focus on this sort of hand-wringing at the expense of what should be the goals of 1) Making the poor better off and 2) Reducing our impact on the natural environment to avert catastrophic climate change[5].

[1]: Actually I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever actually bought a can of actual Red Bull. When I buy an energy drink I usually buy one of the generic own-brand versions from $a_major_supermarket. 

[2]: The fact I&#039;ve almost certainly seen a bunch of ads telling me that people who drink RB are hip and cool and the sort of people I want to be like is beside the point. You can argue I&#039;m being manipulated. The guy from RB can argue that I&#039;m choosing to buy RB because it has been &quot;specially developed for times of increased mental and physical exertion.&quot; 

[3]: In comparison, I mean. IANAP so I have no idea what one does in order to win elections (which is presumably why I&#039;m left wing).

[4]: The equivocation is there because I have no idea what the counterfactual &quot;we became as rich as we are now but without mass-consumerism&quot; would look like.

[5]: And for the majority of the poorest people in the world these are essentially the same thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, as they say, whaddayagonnadoabahtit?</p>
<p>At some point you have to accept that people do things because they choose to do so. Arguing that they have been duped or brainwashed by teh evil corporationss (or teh evil religiousess, for that matter) is unhelpful. Muslim women wear the veil because they want to. I buy Red Bull brand energy drink[1] because I want to[2]. </p>
<p>In reference to your wider point, what the left needs to realise is that exhortations towards the &#8220;improval of the masses&#8221; (by, for example, banning adverts/making advertising standards far stricter/attempting to foster a culture of satiety) is a much less effective vote-winner than suggesting that we simply redistribute a lot of money to poor people from rich people[3].</p>
<p>The actual problem with consumerist advertising culture is that it might[4] create a tendency towards overconsumption, where people buy far more than they actually need and so consume more resources and so cause more environmental damage.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t believe even this is entirely clear-cut. When (God willing) more substantive progress is made towards reducing CO2 emissions and generally creating a more eco-friendly industrial base a large part of it will be involved with persuading people in first-world countries to make certain alterations to their lifestyle. Doing this will require effective legislation, but it will also require effective marketing, which requires (amongst other things) a decent ad-campaign.</p>
<p>In summary: if there is a problem with the left it is its focus on this sort of hand-wringing at the expense of what should be the goals of 1) Making the poor better off and 2) Reducing our impact on the natural environment to avert catastrophic climate change[5].</p>
<p>[1]: Actually I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever actually bought a can of actual Red Bull. When I buy an energy drink I usually buy one of the generic own-brand versions from $a_major_supermarket. </p>
<p>[2]: The fact I&#8217;ve almost certainly seen a bunch of ads telling me that people who drink RB are hip and cool and the sort of people I want to be like is beside the point. You can argue I&#8217;m being manipulated. The guy from RB can argue that I&#8217;m choosing to buy RB because it has been &#8220;specially developed for times of increased mental and physical exertion.&#8221; </p>
<p>[3]: In comparison, I mean. IANAP so I have no idea what one does in order to win elections (which is presumably why I&#8217;m left wing).</p>
<p>[4]: The equivocation is there because I have no idea what the counterfactual &#8220;we became as rich as we are now but without mass-consumerism&#8221; would look like.</p>
<p>[5]: And for the majority of the poorest people in the world these are essentially the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Sagar</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/2009/11/20/the-left-the-right-and-advertising/#comment-1559</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Sagar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?p=1360#comment-1559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Giles, very quickly as I&#039;m stupid busy:

1. Yes, fair point re attitudes on the right. I&#039;ve edited the original to try and reflect that point, and to emphasise that what I&#039;m concerned with is strength of reaction to the effects of advertising, as oppose to setting-up straw men opponents. 

2. I&#039;m not really bothered about not being able to afford most of the crap that advertisers push on us. I don&#039;t want most of it. And what I do want but can&#039;t afford, I&#039;m lucky to have been brought up in such a way as to be able to say to myself &quot;well tough, you can&#039;t have it&quot;, rather than buying it all on credit cards. What bugs me is the pernicious effects of repetitive advertising upon people&#039;s conceptions of what they need for their lives to go well and for them to be respected and have self-respect.

3. I didn&#039;t mean to imply that &quot;status anxiety&quot; (I hate that word, it reminds me of Alain de Botton, the stupid charlatan) is only caused by advertising - of course it&#039;s not. I just think advertising creates a particularly pernicious and pervasive form of SA. (Though I sympathise regarding reading; I still can&#039;t get over how little I&#039;ve read and how much more I have to read...and how I&#039;ll never read it all).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giles, very quickly as I&#8217;m stupid busy:</p>
<p>1. Yes, fair point re attitudes on the right. I&#8217;ve edited the original to try and reflect that point, and to emphasise that what I&#8217;m concerned with is strength of reaction to the effects of advertising, as oppose to setting-up straw men opponents. </p>
<p>2. I&#8217;m not really bothered about not being able to afford most of the crap that advertisers push on us. I don&#8217;t want most of it. And what I do want but can&#8217;t afford, I&#8217;m lucky to have been brought up in such a way as to be able to say to myself &#8220;well tough, you can&#8217;t have it&#8221;, rather than buying it all on credit cards. What bugs me is the pernicious effects of repetitive advertising upon people&#8217;s conceptions of what they need for their lives to go well and for them to be respected and have self-respect.</p>
<p>3. I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that &#8220;status anxiety&#8221; (I hate that word, it reminds me of Alain de Botton, the stupid charlatan) is only caused by advertising &#8211; of course it&#8217;s not. I just think advertising creates a particularly pernicious and pervasive form of SA. (Though I sympathise regarding reading; I still can&#8217;t get over how little I&#8217;ve read and how much more I have to read&#8230;and how I&#8217;ll never read it all).</p>
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		<title>By: freethinkingeconomist</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/2009/11/20/the-left-the-right-and-advertising/#comment-1556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[freethinkingeconomist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?p=1360#comment-1556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where I disagree is that I doubt anyone on the Right can seriously think that advertising is just about reducing search/transaction costs.  It creates desires, rather than actualizes existing ones. 

I am less annoyed by it than you, but being (a) 37 and (b) able to afford much more, I&#039;m kinda more mellow.  But I make an exception for Josh and his fricking superband, all of whom I want to punch really hard, especially the saxophonist.  For Josh, being Josh is punishment enough.

I won&#039;t be self-deceptive and claim that status anxiety etc are not exacerbated by advertising.  But I think it&#039;s sole role in the phenomenon is exaggerated.  I get status anxiety from all sorts of places, and only a small part is to do with buying stuff.  I won&#039;t expand on my particular sources of SA though a lot are to do with reading.  Or were, before I read everything. 

And don&#039;t bet on that advertising campaign existing because it works.  The cliche is always: half of all money on advertising is wasted, we just don&#039;t know which]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where I disagree is that I doubt anyone on the Right can seriously think that advertising is just about reducing search/transaction costs.  It creates desires, rather than actualizes existing ones. </p>
<p>I am less annoyed by it than you, but being (a) 37 and (b) able to afford much more, I&#8217;m kinda more mellow.  But I make an exception for Josh and his fricking superband, all of whom I want to punch really hard, especially the saxophonist.  For Josh, being Josh is punishment enough.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t be self-deceptive and claim that status anxiety etc are not exacerbated by advertising.  But I think it&#8217;s sole role in the phenomenon is exaggerated.  I get status anxiety from all sorts of places, and only a small part is to do with buying stuff.  I won&#8217;t expand on my particular sources of SA though a lot are to do with reading.  Or were, before I read everything. </p>
<p>And don&#8217;t bet on that advertising campaign existing because it works.  The cliche is always: half of all money on advertising is wasted, we just don&#8217;t know which</p>
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