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	<title>Comments on: Adam Smith, The Adam Smith Institute and Flat Tax</title>
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	<description>&#34;But as things are, the war of the sword and the war of the pens is perpetual&#34; - Thomas Hobbes, De Cive</description>
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		<title>By: Davidson</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-6648</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Davidson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-6648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://american-business.org/economy/&quot; / rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://american-business.org/economy/&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://american-business.org/economy/" / rel="nofollow">http://american-business.org/economy/</a></p>
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		<title>By: William Davison</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-6598</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Davison]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 11:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-6598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Applying a so called precept of the &quot;rule of law&quot; to people earning £15,000 or less is in practical, as its almost impossible to live on without benefits or subsidised housing of some sort.  Flat taxes would only work if you took low paid workers out of income tax (and national insurance, it just another income tax).  You need personal allowance of at least £15,000.  When income tax was introduced in 1798 it was set only on incomes over £50,000 in todays money, which is similar to present day Hong Kong Salaries Tax.  

Hong Kong  only gets about 15% of government revenue from its Salaries Tax, compared to nearly 30% from its various Property and Land Taxes.  (By the way often quoted land auctions only raise about 6 to 12%, most revenue comes from Rates, Property tax and Government, rent a sort of land tax).  Hong Kong is probably the nearest example of what Adam Smiths idea tax regime might look like.   Adam Smith favored Land taxes, not income taxes and Adam Smith institute should really be proposing a Land Valuation Tax.  Flat taxes are a bit of a gimmick really that distracts the attention from Adam Smith real argument for Land taxes.

“The annual produce of the land and labour of the society, the real wealth and revenue of the great body of the people, might be the same after such a tax as before. Ground-rents and the ordinary rent of land are, therefore, perhaps, the species of revenue which can best bear to have a peculiar tax imposed upon them.”  Wealth of Nations (1776), Book V, Chap. 2, Art.1 

Milton Friedman a keen follower of Adam Smith, also backed land taxes and praised Hong Kong&#039;s tax system, said &quot;So the question is, which are the least bad taxes? In my opinion the least bad tax is the property tax on the unimproved value of land&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Applying a so called precept of the &#8220;rule of law&#8221; to people earning £15,000 or less is in practical, as its almost impossible to live on without benefits or subsidised housing of some sort.  Flat taxes would only work if you took low paid workers out of income tax (and national insurance, it just another income tax).  You need personal allowance of at least £15,000.  When income tax was introduced in 1798 it was set only on incomes over £50,000 in todays money, which is similar to present day Hong Kong Salaries Tax.  </p>
<p>Hong Kong  only gets about 15% of government revenue from its Salaries Tax, compared to nearly 30% from its various Property and Land Taxes.  (By the way often quoted land auctions only raise about 6 to 12%, most revenue comes from Rates, Property tax and Government, rent a sort of land tax).  Hong Kong is probably the nearest example of what Adam Smiths idea tax regime might look like.   Adam Smith favored Land taxes, not income taxes and Adam Smith institute should really be proposing a Land Valuation Tax.  Flat taxes are a bit of a gimmick really that distracts the attention from Adam Smith real argument for Land taxes.</p>
<p>“The annual produce of the land and labour of the society, the real wealth and revenue of the great body of the people, might be the same after such a tax as before. Ground-rents and the ordinary rent of land are, therefore, perhaps, the species of revenue which can best bear to have a peculiar tax imposed upon them.”  Wealth of Nations (1776), Book V, Chap. 2, Art.1 </p>
<p>Milton Friedman a keen follower of Adam Smith, also backed land taxes and praised Hong Kong&#8217;s tax system, said &#8220;So the question is, which are the least bad taxes? In my opinion the least bad tax is the property tax on the unimproved value of land&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Lingle</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-6597</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Lingle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 09:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-6597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While this is fine, as it is, the simple matter is that progressive taxation violates a precept of the &quot;rule of law&quot; that each be treated as all others. It makes no more sense to place different tax rates on someone on the basis of being more beautiful than earning a higher income.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While this is fine, as it is, the simple matter is that progressive taxation violates a precept of the &#8220;rule of law&#8221; that each be treated as all others. It makes no more sense to place different tax rates on someone on the basis of being more beautiful than earning a higher income.</p>
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		<title>By: How to think about&#8230;The Wealth of Nations &#171; Bad Conscience</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-4314</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How to think about&#8230;The Wealth of Nations &#171; Bad Conscience]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 07:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-4314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] you find stuff that would give any modern neoliberal a coronary. Paul has already pointed out on another post what Smith says on taxes and how the rich should pay proportionately more. But it’s also worth [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you find stuff that would give any modern neoliberal a coronary. Paul has already pointed out on another post what Smith says on taxes and how the rich should pay proportionately more. But it’s also worth [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William Davison</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-2575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Davison]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-2575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think its a stretch to say Adam Smith would support our so called progressive taxation.  For starters the tax system is not really progressive, unless you exclude National insurance.   NI is a tax based on income, with a weak link to the benefits, other taxes are required to support the welfare state.  Until recently we only had 2 Income tax rates 20 and 40%, most 20% rate payers paid national insurance at 11% and their employer paid another 12.8%.  When you combine their Income tax, employee NI and employer NI, the net marginal tax rate paid by the employer in PAYE is about 38%.  As the employee goes on to the higher 40% rate, they largely stop paying the NI.  So the tax system is almost flat already!  i.e. progressive taxation is largely a lie.   

Income tax should return to what it was, a tax on the rich not the poor, it makes little sense to tax people on incomes as low as £6500 which they cannot possibly live on and then give the money back in complex tax credits. 

Consider this, if the Income tax allowance started at £15000 (below that is considered low pay) and NI is scrapped, you could have a single flat 35% income tax rate that would not increase the overall income tax burden on anyone, be a lot simpler and probably more difficult to avoid.  I suspect the tax recovery rate would improve on this lower tax rate and the rest would be recovered by a land value tax as Adam Smith proposed. Also other taxes could be scrapped and reduced, if land taxes were adopted. 

A major problem with progressive taxation is it is so easy for the rich to avoid and the incentive for special interest groups to argue for tax breaks and accountants to find way avoid it becomes greater the higher the rate.  Land taxes are almost impossible to avoid and cheap to collect.  Progressive income tax, has an unintended consequence of blinding many on the left to taxes on Wealth and getting people on middle incomes to often pay higher marginal rates than the rich who can convert their income into capital gains at lower rates or move it off shore.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its a stretch to say Adam Smith would support our so called progressive taxation.  For starters the tax system is not really progressive, unless you exclude National insurance.   NI is a tax based on income, with a weak link to the benefits, other taxes are required to support the welfare state.  Until recently we only had 2 Income tax rates 20 and 40%, most 20% rate payers paid national insurance at 11% and their employer paid another 12.8%.  When you combine their Income tax, employee NI and employer NI, the net marginal tax rate paid by the employer in PAYE is about 38%.  As the employee goes on to the higher 40% rate, they largely stop paying the NI.  So the tax system is almost flat already!  i.e. progressive taxation is largely a lie.   </p>
<p>Income tax should return to what it was, a tax on the rich not the poor, it makes little sense to tax people on incomes as low as £6500 which they cannot possibly live on and then give the money back in complex tax credits. </p>
<p>Consider this, if the Income tax allowance started at £15000 (below that is considered low pay) and NI is scrapped, you could have a single flat 35% income tax rate that would not increase the overall income tax burden on anyone, be a lot simpler and probably more difficult to avoid.  I suspect the tax recovery rate would improve on this lower tax rate and the rest would be recovered by a land value tax as Adam Smith proposed. Also other taxes could be scrapped and reduced, if land taxes were adopted. </p>
<p>A major problem with progressive taxation is it is so easy for the rich to avoid and the incentive for special interest groups to argue for tax breaks and accountants to find way avoid it becomes greater the higher the rate.  Land taxes are almost impossible to avoid and cheap to collect.  Progressive income tax, has an unintended consequence of blinding many on the left to taxes on Wealth and getting people on middle incomes to often pay higher marginal rates than the rich who can convert their income into capital gains at lower rates or move it off shore.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Worstall</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-2559</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Worstall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 07:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-2559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve only just noticed this piece. You seem to get a tad confused a couple of times. Where you&#039;re using &quot;effective&quot; tax rates most would say &quot;average&quot;. And under a flat tax system of course average (or if you prefer, effective) tax rates do vary....but marginal ones don&#039;t (well, if we&#039;re to be really picky, there are two, 0 and 22%).

The other thing is you elide between ground and land rents and house rents. Not the same thing at all. The former are very much something to be taxed, the least distorting of all taxes (as Friedman noted, as did Ricardo and Henry George built a whole system on the point).

But it is the land which is taxed, not what is built upon it. The cottage on an acre of Mayfair should be paying the same tax as the mansion on an acre of Mayfair. For it&#039;s the acre of Mayfair which is the scarce good, not the cottage or the mansion.

Other than that you&#039;re right, it&#039;s very much a matter of opinion. Does a rising average tax rate although a static marginal one meet the test of &quot;greater than proportion&quot;? I&#039;d say yes, you no.

And as to the necessary snark:

&quot;in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.&quot;

Therefore, revenue which is not enjoyed under the protection of the State should not be taxed by said State. Revenue earned abroad and left abroad should not be taxed....we are all non-doms.

Yes, the ASI has been known to say that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve only just noticed this piece. You seem to get a tad confused a couple of times. Where you&#8217;re using &#8220;effective&#8221; tax rates most would say &#8220;average&#8221;. And under a flat tax system of course average (or if you prefer, effective) tax rates do vary&#8230;.but marginal ones don&#8217;t (well, if we&#8217;re to be really picky, there are two, 0 and 22%).</p>
<p>The other thing is you elide between ground and land rents and house rents. Not the same thing at all. The former are very much something to be taxed, the least distorting of all taxes (as Friedman noted, as did Ricardo and Henry George built a whole system on the point).</p>
<p>But it is the land which is taxed, not what is built upon it. The cottage on an acre of Mayfair should be paying the same tax as the mansion on an acre of Mayfair. For it&#8217;s the acre of Mayfair which is the scarce good, not the cottage or the mansion.</p>
<p>Other than that you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s very much a matter of opinion. Does a rising average tax rate although a static marginal one meet the test of &#8220;greater than proportion&#8221;? I&#8217;d say yes, you no.</p>
<p>And as to the necessary snark:</p>
<p>&#8220;in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.&#8221;</p>
<p>Therefore, revenue which is not enjoyed under the protection of the State should not be taxed by said State. Revenue earned abroad and left abroad should not be taxed&#8230;.we are all non-doms.</p>
<p>Yes, the ASI has been known to say that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-1862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 04:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-1862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very interesting.

I`m not convinced that Adam Smith (or any sane person), would be overly concerned that an immensely rich person was only paying a slightly higher percentage of his income in tax than a very rich person was.  
Given that this appears to be the only stumbling block to Adam Smith`s &quot;support&quot; of the policy and that otherwise all of the Adam Smith boxes are being ticked, I don`t think it`s misleading for an institute bearing his name to suggest such a policy.

Nice try though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting.</p>
<p>I`m not convinced that Adam Smith (or any sane person), would be overly concerned that an immensely rich person was only paying a slightly higher percentage of his income in tax than a very rich person was.<br />
Given that this appears to be the only stumbling block to Adam Smith`s &#8220;support&#8221; of the policy and that otherwise all of the Adam Smith boxes are being ticked, I don`t think it`s misleading for an institute bearing his name to suggest such a policy.</p>
<p>Nice try though.</p>
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		<title>By: Linky love 6th January &#171; Left Outside</title>
		<link>http://badconscience.com/nerd-posts/adam-smith-the-adam-smith-institute-and-flat-tax/#comment-1842</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linky love 6th January &#171; Left Outside]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 11:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://badconscience.com/?page_id=1521#comment-1842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Paul Sagar has an excellent post if you are interested in Adam Smith&#8230; and a really excellent post if you are really interested in Adam Smith here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Paul Sagar has an excellent post if you are interested in Adam Smith&#8230; and a really excellent post if you are really interested in Adam Smith here. [...]</p>
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